Memory (Year 1 Thur.)
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I haven’t watched this documentary but “prisoner of consciousness” seems to be a great term to describe Clive Wearing’s situation. In my opionion it’s an appropriate term because of the fact that Clive only remembers things which happened a few seconds ago and after a few seconds he forgets them. Of course, there are exceptions, for example, he remembers that he has a wife or children but he doesn’t remember
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No, we haven’t watched the documentary, just the updated story “The Man with the Seven Second Memory”.
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Yes, that’s true.
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Yes, hopefully he remebered at least some facts about his relatives. Do you think, that it was something cheerful to them, that despite his amnesia he could recognised them? I think that it all this sadness it was a light of hope to them.
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In my opinion they are probably happy because he recognise them. On the other hand, they might be disappointed due to the fact that he doesn’t remember details about them. Unfortunately, he e.g. doesn’t know what is his wife job. Despite that, I’m certain that it is definitely a light of hope to them.
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It’s hard to tell. For me, it was very sad, when he repeated several times, that it’s the same as death. Thankfully he could play a piano,watch rugby or golf. Maybe he couldn’t focus on it that good, but as his wife said- he just liked watching action in these sports. Even if they were laughing i have seen sadness in them.
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I think you’re right, we can see deep sadness even when they laugh. It makes this whole story even more tragic.
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Yeah, I think that this documentary doesn’t show how excatly they feel aobut this situatuin which is very touching and emotional.
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While watching a reflection came to me – that it’s not that unordinary in human life to have contrary feelings subseguently. It’s like any important event or change in our life, even those fortunate and desired, seems to be ambivalent. However, the Wearing’s have to face this a bit confusing difficulty everyday.
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I’m wondering… Had he been agressive earlier, or has it started when he lost his memory?
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I think that it was said in the documentary that he started to be agressive and having mood swings when he got sick and later he stoped but the doctors do not know why.
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But is he aggressive now, Julia? Perhaps, “aggressive” is not the right term, maybe “have outbursts of anger” is betters?
Does he have outbursts of anger now?-
No, he doesn’t. And as Weronika said, doctors don’t know why.
Should we talk about him in the past tense or present? Because i see that you are using present tense.
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In this documentary it was said that back then, when he got ill, he was aggressive. But we probably won’t know the whole truth.
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I believe his episodic agressive behaviors were a part of adaptation and gradual acceptance to the forever loss of life he had used to know.
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I assume that he might be a prisoner of consciousness, which is very overwhelming, because he cannot go anywhere
byon his own, due to the fact that he forgets almost everything. I think he lives only in the present, cannot imagine future or recall past memories. That is why I think he is a prisoner because he can only do things which his consciousness lets him do. In this case consciousness is an unfair guardian of his memory due to the fact that he forgets his sons‘s names or when his wife arrives.-
Maybe he lived only in present, but i think that his wife told somenthing accurate- they were living in world without time.
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As you said he lives in the present, he lives in the world without time. But for his healthy wife it must be a horror. She knows that she can’t have a future with her love, her husband, but on the other hand she want a normal life. For her time didnt’t “stop”. I think it’s the most difficult part of their life.
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I agree with that sentence. We don’t think about present all the time. Sometimes we dream, or think about the past. He can’t do it, because he remember nothing, only facts about his life. He can just life in the moment, because his memory last only seven seconds.
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Maybe, but what’s the sense in focusing on what’s happening now, while you can’t learn anything, can’t remember what you did one minute ago? There is needed golden mean between past and future, and Clive has only 7 seconds of his past.
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Yes! Could you imagine thinking only about present? It’s impossible for me.
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It seems impossible for me as well. It’s incredible how calm he was while talking about it.
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Yes, his attitiude was surprising for me. He accepted it instead of aggressive behaviour. I admire his wife, who stayed with him for so long. It could be better and easier for her to leave him, because he wouldn’t remembered her.
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You’re right, if I was in her shoes I don’t think I would be able to stay for so many years. Especially when there is no hope for him to ever get better.
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Do you think, that the reason why she just didn’t abandon him was a love? Or a sense of duty?As we could see in the film, this situation was too painful for his children. Mayby she thought that without her nobody will help his husband?
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Mostly love, i think. She said that she had moved to New York and had dated some men. But nobody had been Clive. I think that’s the main reason, why she returned.
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I think it’s both love and sense of duty. I still belive she decided to stay because she loved him, but her decision was propably also result of his childrens reaction and fear, that he will be alone.
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i think it was love. After all she divorced him an yet she choose to stay with him and help him the best way she can
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Oh yeah, and their story makes me wonder whether true love always means willingness to complete commitment – what if I can’t provide it? Does it mean that I don’t love the person or that my love is too weak?
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When I looked at them, I could see true, beautiful love. His expression, when he saw her when she came was so genuine. You are right Julia.
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I think he could be called “prisoner of consciousness” because he knows that he does not remember a lot of his life but he can not do anything about it. He told in the documentary something like “Being in this state is like being dead because you don’t do anything when you are dead” and for me it is showing that he is concious of his state even if he does not remember a lot of his life.
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Yeah, for me it’s tragic that he was aware of his state. My grandmoder lost her memory but she wasn’t aware of it. And she was very calm, sometimes it was hard for her when she didn’t recognise her children. But in her situation, she wasn’t thinking about it but Clive was.
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Watching this documentary made me really sad bacause I can not imagine how hard it must be for people that go through illness like that, that they lose their memory and can not remember their own children or grandchildren. I think it is not only hard for the person who lost memory but to the family too. Cliff is so aware of his state and this must be hard.
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I once heard that in losing memory is one beautiful thing- you can meet the love of your life or the other important people every time afresh.
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That’s kinda true, but also sad. You are meeting the love of your life, but you can’t keep her in your mind, this person is only for a while.
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You’re right. It must be very difficult and tiring to constantly remind someone of the facts of his/her life. If someone accepts it, she/he must really love the other person.
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But you can not remember her name and you can not move your relationship forward because you are still at the beggining. It feels so sad and unfair that such situations actually happens.
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I agree with that. Cliff was so happy when he saw his wife and when she have to go he says “be back with the speed of light” ant it really delights me.
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Yes, I think that it’s very hard for his family. His son said that he hasn’t seen him for seven years because it’s too painful for him. His daughter said that she gave up, because it’s really hard, for example she wanted him to walk her down the aisle when she was getting married but he couldn’t do it.
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Also, that awareness of his state is really interesting for me. He did not remember the place but he knew why. He did not forget about his illness or maybe somehow he worked through it.
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Do you think that this is a reason why he suddenely stopped being agressive? It is possible that he somehow adjusted to his situation and stop being frustrated all the time?
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Yes, I think that it can be truth. For sure, the movie did not show everything. Maybe there was a specialist help, which made him aware of his illness. I just wonder how it was possible. I am not suprised that he was agressive, I can not imagine waking up in strange place a few times a day. He had to accept this somehow to stay calm.
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I was thinking about it too. How can he be aware of his situation? Maybe he does not know how it works, but he sees that he can’t recall informations about his life.
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In my opinion yes, because he has no memory of almost everything that happened even a minute ago. He is forced to live here and now. He has no choice. Even if he would like to go back to the memories, he can’t, he can only experience the present.
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I agree with the opinion that Clive Wearing is a prisoner of consciousness. Clive’s brain was being attacked by the herpes simplex virus that had destroyed Clive’s hippocampus, an area of the brain crucial for memory and learning. With this moment Clive became a prisoner of consciousness – it was taken away from him forever. Clive said that unconscious mean as same as death, that there is no difference in day and night and no thoughts at all. Every moment for him was like the first time of seeing something, his writing, his room or a human being. Clive only had a seven-second memory before his mind went blank. In my opinion his story was extremly moving and I totally agree with the opinion of him being a prisoner of conciousness.
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I believe it’s true. He has lost himself because he wasn’t even aware of how old he was or when and how his wedding looked like. It’s like losing all your past and present because you can’t think of the past if you don’t remember it.
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Do you think that he lost himself entirely? He still had some old sense of humour for example. Mayby a little fraction of his old self remaine untouched?
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No, I think that he lost himself entirely. Yes, he still had some sense of humour, but a few seconds later he couldn’t remember anything. It is extremely sad.
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So what do you say about his music abilities? As we could see in the movie, being conductor was (near) everything to him. Even his son said that the time he had spent with his father was connected to his job. So if this significant fraction of his old live remain untouched can we say that he has gone forever?
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Can you imagine having no memories & living in present?
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I think nobody can imagine that.
Thought that something like this can happen to someone is terrifying-
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In my opinion it was similar. Jimmie also he couldn’t remember that he had just talked to the doctor who had left and returned after 2 minutes. Oliver Sacks diagnosed this man with Korsakov’s Syndrome. Symptoms are similar to Clive’s.
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Definitely not. I think I’d feel constantly embarrassed that I wouldn’t recognize people, who are close to me. I’d know they’re sorry about that, too. I wouldn’t be independent. I’d have to have someone with me all the time. Travelling, meeting friends or studying psychology could not be part of my life then.
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I think so too. Vision of such life is frightening.
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As far as I am concerned, it is like being empty, without any chance to live life to it’s fullest. Do you think that he was aware of the pain of his relatives?
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In my opinion Clive Wearing is (if my understanding is correct) prisoner of unconsciousness,not consciousness because his problem is not that he is all the time conscious but he is unconscious. I mean he knows some facts like who is his wife or some music to play but he is not able to deeply process
informationsinformation, he doesn’t know where he lives, doesn’t remember important facts that happend to him after his illness. In fact, he can’t watch or read because he wouldn’t remember what happend one moment ago. So that’s why in my opinion a “prisoner of unconsciousness” is a proper name for Clive Wearing’s situation.-
To me it seems as if he was stuck between complete awareness and complete unconsciousness. I think it’s easier to be fully conscious or even unconscious – but how to adapt to an intermediate state of mind? I believe this is a part of his imprisonment.
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Maybe he is aware that he doesn’t remember. And that’s why he is a “prisioner of consciousness”.
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Perhaps the title alludes to the nature of his consciousness. He is still conscious and knows he is alive – but that’s all. He can’t carry on with life, he can’t form it the way he needs or wants to, he is stuck in the presence which he can’t even change. His own life rolls regardless of him.
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I think it’s a good term – prisoner of consciousness, because he could speak about thing that are currently happening. His consciousness ends when 7 seconds passes. Clive coudn’t talk about daily things like all people – hobbies, world problems, what happened yesterday. He only remember his wife (and that’s touching for me, I‘m a romantic person, and there we can see a real power of love) but that’s sad that he knows who she is, that they are married, but he doesn’t remember their wedding.
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Do you think that she loves him either? Or mayby this is just a sense of duty? As we could see in the film, to his children it was too painful to take care of him or even meet with him.
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I am certain that she loves him, she even went to the USA and came back because of him. She was looking for him in the people she met there. I do not think she could pretend to be in love with him. She made sacrifices to be with him, because she wanted to have children and someone who could really love her back. Despite this fact, she choose a life with him.
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Yes, she left him for a while, and she was even dating with other man, but she said he wasn’t Clive, and came back to him. Maybe I’m just too romantic, but i believe they love each other. What’s your opinion?
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During the movie, I was wondering why he knew just her. Deborah was his second wife and he did not remember the first one. The same as his children but he certainly loved them before he got sick.
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Yes, it made me surprised too. But you know, if deborah was his second wife, it means that love with the first one ended, ans she wasn’t that important for him.
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In my opinion, a term “prisoner of consciousness” is appropiate to describe Clive’s case. After all, he said it’s like being dead. No dreams, no thoughts. He is fully dependent on his own consciousness. I cannot imagine how awful it is to live with no future and just small pieces of the past. The worst part is that there is no hope for him to ever get better. If that’s not imprisonment, then I don’t know what is.
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I admire his.. I don’t know how to call it, joy of just being alive? hope focused on present regardless of the bleak future? Maybe because of his inability to predict anything he is able to live with his condition and not to worry about what will come. As if he is conscious, but unsconscious of his imprisonment.
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In my opinion the term “prisoner of consciousness” is accurate for Clive’s situation, because he isn’t completely free in this case and he can’t control his conscious. We may even say that he was enslaved by this ailment. I feel really sorry for him, because it must be horrible to lose all your memory.
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But he was not even aware that his brain was completely destroyed including his memory. I can’t even image how hard it was and it is for his family.
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And can you imagine, beeing in state like that for about 20 years and even don’t know how long you are in this state? He can’t even think about “when it all has started…”.
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Exactly, it must have been the worst when it all started. No one was prepared for such a horrible situation. I can’t even imagine how his wife must have felt.
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To my way of thinking, the ordinary and eligible state of human’s life demands being conscious, especially since one becomes an adult – you need your own consciousness to make any decisions in your life, from the most trivial to the most crucial. I believe the loss of ability to understand and evaluate the reality around is like a sentence to a complete dependence on others’ willingness to support and to take a responsibilty for one’s life, and on turns of fate.
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I mean keeping up with requirements of today’s life. The reality becomes more and more complicated and it’s easy to doubt oneself as adequate to cope and then to get out of circulation.
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I think I have a problem with the collocation “eligible state of human’s life”. Could you translate it into Polish?
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I meant “pożądany, chciany, oczekiwany stan ludzkiego życia”. I meant consciousness and control over own life is something we are all (rather in the deep, we rather don’t tend to wonder about it everyday life) afraid of losing, like it’s the last thing we would like to happen to us. And subsequently we take it for granted, it is rather unimaginable for us that any time we are at a risk of losing it.
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I’m not sure if “eligible” is the right word here. Some students aren’t eligible for special education (they do not qualify for it), a man can be an eligible bachelor (he is a proper person to marry because of his good education, social standing, etc.), or a person is eligible to vote (he/she is of age now)
In your sentence I’d rather use “desirable” or “expected”.
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But i see some positive things in his situatio. Even when his wife left him ( because she wanted to fill the void in her life), she came back to him. And as his daughter said- no one could help him, support him like his wife.
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I agree with you. Their love is beautiful! I’m wondering if he remember that he loves her or he fall in love every time he see her.
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Yes! Honestly, I’m shocked that their love is so strong.
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I think it’s a good question because I know hat he remember that she is his wife but I don’t know does he feel love for her all the time or he falls in love with her over and over again or maybe it’s just happiness that he sees her because he remember what he felt for her when he wasn’t ill.
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Maybe it’s the fact, that he remember this feeling of love.
But i think that he said, he regret loosing love when he lost his memory. Do you remember this sentence?
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Oh, I don’t but it is possible that he said something like that. It would be a good explanation for his behaviour.
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He remembered her, knew that she was his wife, but he couldn’t remember that she visited him
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Indeed. He recognised her every time he saw her, even though he may not be able to describe (when is away) what she looks like. On top of that, he doesn’t know anything about her.
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It was very touching, when i saw fragment of this first document, when he was calling her, he was in tears and he wanted her to visit him. But she already came back home from hospital. And he wasn’t aware of it.
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He surely remembered her, cause he was extremely happy when he saw her in his door. He just could not remember when was the last time she has visited him, but I think the fact that he is unconscious about things that happened in the past is good somehow, cause he can’t remember his sadness about her absence.
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He had forgotten near all facts from his live, but he still was able to recognise his wife? You think, that love can be that strong to overcome even such a serious issue?
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No I don’t. I think the extraordinariness of this fact is not caused by love, understood as romantic felling, but as strong affection to some person. It was that strong so it was in his mind even after the illness.
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That’s true, their story really touched me. I think story of their life is better then in many romantic movies, because this is true story, and that is wonderfull. I can understand her that she left him for a while, it had to be hard for her too, but real love always wins.
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I agree, his wife is extremely brave and strong. She decided to stay by his side when everyone else could not handle their own pain. Their fear is understandable, what makes Deborah even more of a hero.
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Yes, I totally agree with you. I admire Deborah, because it must be hard for her. She lost her husband – maybe not in a literal way, but like she said – he’s in many senses dead. But she’s still a huge support for him.
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But she said, that in USA she was actually looking for Clive. And i think it is beautifuul that she wanted to get back the old husband, but she realized that she should be with Clive, who was the new one.
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This is true love – also from Clive. After loosing his memory he can’t recall his own age or what day of the week it is, but he never forgets his wife’s name.
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I remember that the daughter said something like “I don’t know that I could stay like Deborah” and I started thinking that I do not know if I would be able to do the same as Cliff’s wife because it is really difficult situation. I was really impresed by Deborah’s perseverance and strength and it reminds me about Christina’s strenght.
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Weronika’s thought is very interesting. I didn’t think about his wife at all. It has to be horrible to
sacrifice your life for a man that remembers only the fact that you are married to him. I don’t think I would do the same thing for my future husband, maybe for some time in the name of love, but eventually it could be not enough to be with him. -
I agree, what I find the most incredible in this story was her strength. I have really no idea how it’s possible to be so optimistic and happy in this situation.
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I also think that it is incredible how strong their love is. She is so caring and patient and as you said is amazing that she came back to him even after divorce, because she felt that Clive is the only man she could be with
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When they were kissing i was very very moved 😀 It was so beautiful.
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Yes, and asked “what love means?” he said “0 in tennis and everything in life” It really touched me.
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Oh yes! And when his wife said that when they talked he asked her: “Back as the speed of the light!” It was so adorable
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And when he said that when she comes it’s like heaven on earth, i almost had tears in my eyes.
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I see that all of us are very moved by their love 😀
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It’s true, even his daughter couldn’t deal with his case but Deborah stay with him and support him like a real wife, for me it’s like realy true love
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Aren’t you touched by the fact, that he remembered only his wife? Because i am. In this tragic situation it seems like she was really the most important person in his life.
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I think he also remembered his children but not so well like his wife, despite of this tragic situation it’s intresting that he better recognize his wife than his children
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Yes, and it is interesting, that it is his second wife, and they were married for only 18 months when it all happened. But she still was that important.
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I don’t remember that in film was anything about his first wife. I wondering if he recognize her or even know that he was married with his first wife
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Yes, i think his first wife was not mentioned. And his parents too. I’m wondering how did they react for his illness?
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Maybe his parents passed away before the documentary was made
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Exactly! I reckon that his wife is the most important person in his life. She is trying to make his life better and support him. Also, he is always joyful when he sees her, even if he forgets about it after a few seconds. Deborah is an amazing person, she sets a good example for everybody.
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I really admire Deborah. She wanted to meet somone and have kids in the future, but her love for Clive was stronger. It’s a beautiful story.
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I completely agree with you all. This documentary showed Clive’s story, but also Deborah’s. I was just mesmerised by how she talked about him, how she have loved him for so many years. She’s such a strong woman. I think her demeanour is quite inspiring and gives this absolutely tragic story a little bit of light.
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Yes, I think he may be named as prisoner of consciousness.
We live fast and we don’t think about such easy things like thinking or dreams. We never wonder what it will be if we lose it. But he lost it due to his illness and every few seconds he realises that he remember nothing what was really important to him. He see a human and he say that it is first human being whom he has seen. It’s frightening! Like he said, it’s like death.-
Yes! It was terrible for me when i was watching the documentary, and he repeated this one sentence, when he was seeing people in his room.
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Yes, it was really moving for me. It was also very sad when his son said that meeting with his father is too painful for him. I can understand him because he will remember this meeting and he will probably thinking about it for a long time but his father not. It must be really difficult when you lost your parent in that way. He is still alive but he can’t be part of your life any more. He even don’t remember you!
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I remember my grandmother crying, when her mother could not recognise her. And it is very sad, that situaton like that happend to his children when they were that young.
And i really understand his son’s fear of meeting him. Because he could start crying and make Clive having a guilty conscience.-
I believe it is also hard for Clive because he is looking at someone and he don’t know who is it. It must be painfull for him when somebody tell him that it’s someone very important to him like his son or sister. I think he may feel guilty due to fact he can’t recognise them, even if they don’t show that the meeting is painfull for them.
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I agree, it must be really sad for his wife to know that every time she visits him looks like the first time to him. At the end of the day, he still won’t remember she came.
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Yes, exactly. His wife’s character is really inspiring! I don’t know how she found that strength to deal with that very difficult situation. She must love him more than everything else. Many marriages divorce even when they have smaller problems.
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That’s right, many couples could learn a lot from them. Their story is really touching.
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Yes, and sentence “in sickness and in health” has so much power when i see them.
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Clive Wearing’s case is really moving for me because I can’t even imagine how difficult it is not to remember anything that happened a few seconds before. He is not in charge of his consciousness, so I think that he can be called a “prisoner of consciousness”. When I watched the film about him, I was amazed how calm he was and how nervelessly he respond to a lot of questions. He behaved like he was reconciled with this really tough situation or maybe it’s because he just doesn’t remember anything that happened a while ago (e. g. he doesn’t remember that someone asked him the same questions two or three times)
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In my opinion this title shows what Clive strugles every day but I don’t know exactly that i can say he strugles because he forgets everything but he has some awakenings and still remembers some facts before the illnes. He definetlly is the prisoner of consciousness because he can’t do anything about it
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I think that term ,,prisoner of unconsciousness” describes Clive’s situation in a better way. There are some scenes in the film, which shows how shockingly unocnscious was he. For example let’s think about this moment, when Clive’s sister Adele came to see him. He was very happy abot this meeting, but two minutes after, he didin’t remerber his sister sitting next to him.
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You think that his relatives in some way could adjust to this situation? Or it was too painful to overcome by their all live?
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I think they just have to adapt to the situation because they can’t change it. It’s really hard to accept. Think your own parent wouldn’t know almost anything about you, sounds terrible, right? Unfortunately, we have no control over everything that happens to us in life. If Clive was my father, I wouldn’t cut off my relation with him, but I don’t know how often I’d see him. I think it would be difficult to talk together. What is your opinion Adrian?
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Case of Clive is very sad but also interesting. For me he is a prisoner of counsciousness because with his condition he cannot live without 24 hour supervision. Loosing his memory made him incapable of knowing where he is, what day of the week is etc. The proof of him beeing prisoner of counsciouness is seen when he writes sentences in his diary. He put down there words like ” I’m alive” soo it means that he feel like dead person all the time. It’s also sad that he cannot do things that he wants because he even lost his ability to think. Clive counsciouness just let him do things like walking, playing piano but he cannot recall his memories when he was conducting. It is also said by his wife Debra that he just know things e.g that she is his wife but he don’t remember the day of their wedding. And thats why also he is a prisoner because he can’t feel how it is to love, he can’t recall even the most wonderful days of his life.
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You have a good point! It really got to me when he showed his diary. I realised how awful it must be for him. All of those same entries show what being a ‘prisoner of consciousness’ is for him.
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Yes i nearly cried when I saw the moment with the diary. Then at the end he said that his happy because he is not counscious of his state. It consoled me up a little
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I think we can say Clive is a ‘prisoner of consciousness’, especially if he says it himself. It shows how he feels. He is conscious and aware of many things, but just for around 7 seconds, then he forgets it and has to experience it all over again. It’s like a vicious circle. That must be terrible.
Clive can’t make normal decisions and he can’t think, yet he is conscious all the time. I think this is what makes him the prisoner of his own consciousness. -
I agree with the statement that he’s the prisoner of consciousness. He couldn’t remember anything that happened in the past – he discredited his illness as a death. He was aware of his illness. The fact that he remembered his wife & that she supported him was very touching to me.
I can’t imagine what it’s like not to have any memories and only think about present.-
That’s true, it is very moving that his wife takes care of him all these years. It must be true love. She’s still by his side despite his terrible illness.
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Yes, she’s supporting him despite everything & it must be really hard for her too – seeing him in that condition
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Back then, 3 years after became ill, his wife said that for her it’s like being wife and widow at the same time. That’s terrifying
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In my opinion he is a “prisoner of consciousness”, because he only live in present time. He doesn’t even remember how it was to live life to the fullest, which is depressing. I feel very sorry for him and his family. Frankly speaking, I can’t even imagine how hard this situation is for all of them.
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Yeah it’s not only his tragedy but his family’s too. I can’t imagine how hard is it for them.
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In the documentary we could see how his daughter reacts, which is very painful, and she says that she would give up on him, if she was in Deborah shoes.
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Yes, that is so sad. However, Deborah must be very strong and mentally strong woman, because not everyone could deal with such situation.
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Yes, it’s not possible for him to live his life to the fullest. I’m not sure who to sympathize more – Clive or his family. He has to live with his amnesia, they have to live watching his agony.
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That’s true. It’s hard to imagine how hard this situation is for for Clive and his family, especially close family. It reminds me about a scene when he was writing down “I am alive”, “I am now toatally awake”, “I am now perfectly awake”, etc. He was probably very frustrated but also depressed.
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In my opinion Cliv’s suffering is really terrible. As he said, his life is very similar to death. He remember nothing, he feels nothing, he forget everything. It’s like being prisoned in room 1mx1m. These functions are crucial for normal well being. Without them… we are hollow, empty. What is more, his amnesia hurts also his family. Repeating again and again the same dialogue all the time, seeing Cliv being only some little fraction of his old self. I think, that very painful is also fact, that his sense of humour remain mostly the same. So, you see your dear father/husband who is in some part like always… but on the other hand definitely he is not. To conclude, I think that Cliv is a prisoner of consciousness, because of his amnesia his life has been reduced to something which cannot be described as life at all.
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Clive Wearing can be called prisoner of consciousness. We find a proof in his diary. He used to write just one sentence “Now I’m awake” (sometimes using different words but the meaning was the same) but several times during the day. He tried to show that “now and only now” he’s conscious. But this state last just a few seconds, just a moment when he feel a little bit more alive. His life seems to be full of attempts at showing he is awake, conscious. But this consciousness is locked in just few seconds.
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Aleksandra What do you think about Clive`s diary? Why did he write in the diary?
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Hmm… I think there are many people that keep the diary to write about important events in their life. Clive’s life seems to be raelly simple and the most important for him was his awakenings. That’s why he wrote about it.
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I think that this title “Prisoner of Consciousness” may be accurate to describe his case, but it also has negative significance. He was stuck in those seven seconds in some way. He was repeating, that he was incapable of thinking, dreaming and it really sounds like hell (referring to his daughter’s words). However, I would not call him as prisoner. He had a little freedom in the form of music. I know that in such anguish it is not a consolation, but it is important to focus on that good aspects to stay sane.
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You are right. And i think that his personality is really helpful! He can deal with fact he doesn’t remember in some way. He didn’t lose his sense of humor and his love to the music.
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In my opinion, „prisoner of consciousness” is a right term to describe Clive. He told that he has no thoughts, no dreams, always the same. He compared his case as death. Every few seconds Clive is „reborning”, everything is new for him, even things in his house, which he has lived in for many years.
I have to say that this documentary has touched me. I think it is very sad to not remember your life. It must be frustrating to lose memory and trying to remember anything.-
Yes I also think that it should be soo painfull but more for the family. Clive himself said that he is happy because he can’t remember what he lost. It bothers me a lot that Debra can see what he have lost and also that he once loved her and now he can’t remember the date of thier wedding. They also feel sad while seeing him forgeting thier names and things that they have said to him. I know that family is aware of his condition but I think that they are just sad with their counsciouness of lost.
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Yes, I think in his case, it is more painful for the family than himself. Most of the time he is unconscious and as you said he doesn’t remember what he lost, unlike his family, that’s why they don’t often visit him. Also I remember when his son said that sometimes he want to ask his father if he know his name, but he doesn’t know if he don’t want to feel bad for himself or for Clive.
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Yes the case with his son was very sad for me. Even his daughter didn’t visit him after the accidante because it was to painfull for her.
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I personally think thathe is a prisoner of consciousness . He can’t remember a thing from his
current life. He is only aware of things that happened not longer than 7 second before. The only way to live is to focus on the fact he knows for the very little time. He said that being unconscious is like death, and it’s great conclusion about his life. -
One of the things that wasn’t sad about the movie were parts when Clive saw his wife. He was peacfull, happy and full of love and I got emotional when the documentalist asked Clive ‘what is love? ‘and he answered ‘Zero in tennis and everything in life’ it was so adorable
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Yes, it was one of the most touching moments for me as well. Their love is really strong and unusal. I don’t think many couples could overcome such an obstacle.
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Yes, I agree with you. Despite his illness, their relationship was so strong and they looked like they are falling in love with each other every day more and more
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That’s true but I also think that they have been through a hell while everything came. In my opinion Debra after a very long time deal with it by doing bad things like alcohol or bad relationships. And after making peace with God she realised that she wants to be with Clive for the rest of her life. But I also think that without their strong feeling of love they wouldn’t have accomplished what they have now.
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It was also really sad for me when he said that one of the worst things for him is that he cannot be a musician anymore. His wife said that he was really good at conducting and composing music, so maybe if he wasn’t infected by virus he could be really famous in music industry? Also sad thing is that he actually became famous but not as a musician, but as a person with really rare disease
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Yes, I’m wondering how much he could have achieved if he had not been infected.
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i think that in many way he is a prisoner of consciousness. Technically he is concious but in reality he is absent. He doesn
t know what day, century it is or even how old he is. He has to depend on somebody all the time. He doesnt remember what his life used to be like. Fortunately he still can play music, watch sports.
Like he saidunconsiousunconsciousness is like death. He lives but he doesn`t remeber anything that is happeninganyevery day. Every joyful, sad moments. Everything is gone within a few seconds.
I can’t imagine how hard it must be for him.-
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To be honest i don
t know why its happening. I just write, I dont`t use any editon in here. Is there any way to fix this problem?-
Look at the symbols on top of the window. You will find “edit” there. If you want to cross a word/phrase out, highlight it and click DEL, if you want to use bold, click B. If you want to add a link, click LINK.
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Thank you very much. I will make sure to remeber this.
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What was for you the most shocking part of the Clive’s story?
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To me the most shocking part was how quickly he lost his memory. I can’t imagine what he must have felt. Also i was really shocked how one moment he was so happy with his sister visit and then not remembering that she was even there.
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Most of you say that Clive is the prisoner of consciousness and that he has lost himself.
In the light if this, how do you interpret Deborah’s words: I realised that we are not just brain and processes. Clive had lost all that and yet he was still Clive.”-
I understand it in that way, that he has lost his memories, but he is still himself. His illness didn’t affect her love for him & he is still the man she fell in love with. Also his brain
wasn’tisn’t working normally & he has lost the ability to livethea normal life, but he is still Clive, even though his brain isn’t working as it used to.-
I agree with Sandra, furthermore I think that damage of the hippocampus could not affect his personality, but it did affect his memory.
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I think Deborah’s words mean that automatic processes don’t make us humans and individuals. Clive still has a personality. Even his son said that 3/4 of his personality is still there. Clive has the same sense of humor, many of the same skills, same jokes etc. Deborah couldn’t stop feeling the love for him. She still saw Clive as Clive, just without some fully functioning processes.
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Despite his serious illness and memory loss, Clive still loved his wife very much and was gallant towards her. He was always happy when she visited him, kissed her and wanted to be with her as often as possible. I think Clive hasn’t lost certain character traits such as a sense of humour and being cheerful. Deborah fell in love with these character traits years ago and they make Clive still Clive for her.
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I think that Debora’h wanted to say that even without his memory he still have his sense of humor and just character. We born with some temperament and it is independent of our memory. It was showed that he was very funny and cheerful before and after the accident. So he is still the same perso but without counsciouness.
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You’re right. It’s very good that we’re born with a temper that nothing can take away from us. So even in the most difficult cases – such as this Clive’s case – we keep a part of ourselves.
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It seems like we (human beings) are not only some kinds of process in the brain and nervous system but smoething more f.e. various religions says about soul. Even thought his brain was damaged he still was himslef, in some dialogys he was charmfull and inteligent
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Despite memory loss, he was still the same person he was before an illness. As Sandra said, he was still himself. For example his life doesn’t look like it was earlier, but he still has passion for music.
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Maybe – he has lost himself, but she still has memories about “old Clive” and she can’t get rid of them. Maybe she sees his old habits in his present behavior and that’s why she thinks that he is still Clive.
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I agree with the girls. Although he lost his memory, he still has a personality. In the documentary we can see that Clive is a very funny, loving, intelligent person. I really enjoyed the part when he was asked what does love mean and he answered “zero in tennis and everything”. Clive lost his memory, but he has not lost his personality.
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Indeed, he is a fun to be with. He also said “home is yesterday”, it was funny and sad at the same time. Funny, because it’s not a common thing to say, and sad because he couldn’t be more right. A normal family life was a thing of past for him and his family.
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Thank you for explaining this quotation. When I first heard this sentence, I didn’t understand it. Now, it has a lot of sense and what he said was very smart.
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In spite of his illness he is the same Clive like earlier. He has the same sense of humor and he loves the same people and things like before. He still loves his wife and is into music. So the illness and his all current problems weren’t able to change his personality and his hobby. It’s quite interesting.
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I think her words mean
sthat he lost a lot of his memory but not his character and sense of humour. He remembers that he was a musician. He can still play the piano and I think it is a big part of him. -
Just like Deborah said we are not just brain and process. We have our personality. Clive’s son said that Clive still has 3/4 of his personality. He laughs, think the same way he used to. Maybe that’s the reason Deborah still loves him very much.
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I think that she said so, cause in her life at that moment, even tiny positive reactions were very needed. Her husband’s happiness was the source of her happiness. So when he lost his memory, but he was always excited about her coming, she felt like nothing has changed. In my opinion she loved her husband for a great amount of
character traits, so even when her life changed completely, and her marriage was unfixable in some way, she could see in Clive the same traits as before.
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He is indeed a “prisoner of consciousness”. His awareness of the specific moment lasts only seven seconds. After that time he finds himself in a new place which he don’t remember. His “normal” life was taken from him. Because of the illness he can’t be on his own and he can’t create music what it’s probably a terrible thing for a conductor. He lives out of time, days and nights are the same.
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I think that he didn’t lost his character. He had a sense of humor, he was gentle for his wife and he didn’t forget her at all. Maybe a part of his brain was damaged, but he remembers with his heart
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Yes, he was laughing a lot and it was very pleasantly to see.
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His laughter makes him looks like a friendly, optimistic person. It is very important to be optimistic and smiling even in such a difficult situation.
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It’s amazing that he didn’t forget his wife. But it’s sad at the same time, because he remember not much about her.
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I think you’re right. The way he was talking and acting towards others showed his true, amazing personality. Of course he propably changed in some ways, but stayed the same in others. He lost his ability to memorise, but not his character.
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That is a very good point. Clive shows that love is in the heart.
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I think human is not just his brain, heart and other parts of body systems. Being human is also having personality which is hard to change. As we saw in video not every illnes can take who we are away.
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Yes, I see that he didn’t lose his openess, energy, excitement. And i am not surprised, that Deborah felt in love with him.
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His laugh was the best thing in my view because it shows how much of himself he still has.
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Yes, that’s true. Even if his laugh was a little strange for me, but i think it is because it sounded weird haha
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Also when he played, it make me almost forget about his illness.
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Maybe for deborah he was the same Clive all the time because for a few seconds he was aware and talked to her, they had a common past, even though it only lasted 18 months before the illness.
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Maybe… because as i sad, in documentary she confess that she wanted to find “other Clive” in USA but she realized that her Clive is the only one. And she came back to him. Maybe because she noticed, that maybe he lost his memory, but it is still the same, funny man.
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I think that he can be called “prisoner of consciousness”, because he knew that he had problems with his memory. It was so tragic that he knew it and couldn’t do anything about it. He was aware of things that happend no longer than seven seconds before. In my opinion it’s really sad. He was like dead inside.
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Deborah loves him very much. She remarried him and often visits Clive. He doesn’t remember past 20 years or their marriage. Though his brain doesn’t work as it should, Clive doesn’t lose his intelligence and wite. She knows that Clive is still her beloved husband and that he doesn’t stop to love her.
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But Deborah tried to start a new life in the USA. Do you think it was a good idea?
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I think yes, because when she arrived to USA, she realised that she couldn’t be in a relationship with someone else.
And she realised that her place is with Clive.-
You’re right, she needed this trip in order to understand Clive is one of a kind. Sometimes we need to look at some things from a distance so we can realise what we really want.
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Her husband’s illness and its outcomes was a very difficult experience for her. I think that she made a good decision trying to start a new life. However after all she came back because she could love only Clive. She felt an emptiness inside, but then she found God and he helped her.
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I think she had
rightsevery right to try that, because she wanted to have children and meet someone who could love her back as everyone else does. She knew that life with him would mean not fulfilling her own dreams and then she was not ready for that. -
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She was confused and didn’t know how to act in this kind of situation. She tried to escape and start a new life but she realised that she couldn’t start new life because she wants to stay with Clive. Of course she had the right/every right to that and everything that could help her to overcome this difficult situation
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I learnt that even if situations seems to be tragic- you can handle it. Try to be happy and love other people. Even if they are not exactly the same as they had been.
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I feel the same way. It’s very important to learn how to live in every situation no matter how difficult it is and try to enjoy it in some way like Clive and Deborah are trying.
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Watching this documentary I learnt that love can overcome near every difficult issue in life, even so rare and out of the ordinary case of amnesia (as if amnesia wasn’t out of the ordinary itself to be honest)… and also that love means “zero in tennis and everything in life” 😉
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I learned that I have to more appreciate my memory. My whole history, every moments in my life I have in my brain and I can come back to them, when I want to. Clive cannot do this, that’s why I think it is very sad.
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I think other way about my own memory and what happened in my life, because I am now aware that I can lose it. Cliff did not remember a lot from what happened in his life but he still have his personality and because of that I learned that we are not only our memories but we still can be ourselves even in that hard situation. You can still be happy even if you are in a situation like this.
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Memory is one of the most important part of human being to have dreams, memories and expirence. It is also important to be aware of what you are doing, why you are doing. This documentary also show me what real love mean
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Clieve doesn’t remember his wedding or his son’s name, but he can recognise his children, Deborah and he still loves them. Maybe his brain doesn’t work properly, but Clieve is still Clieve besides all circumstances.
On the other hand without memory he isn’t able to live in “normal” world. Amnesia makes every moment a new experience. Because of it Clieve is always lost. -
I learned that we are not aware of the value of our memory, for us is a normal thing that we can come back to our past whenever we want to. Clive is also a good example for us that no metter what are you going through in your life – you can be a good, loving, funny person.
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I learn to appreciate memory. Not only possibility to dream, remebering important events in life, people but simple tasks like brushing teeths, remebering what time,date it is, how to get home, where is home.
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I have learnt that a big part of our life depends on memory. Every sickness always reminds me how greatful should I be that I’m healthy. Also I saw that the memory responsible for doing things like talking, playing piano or just walking was not demaged.
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I learnt that what does not kill me makes me stronger and there is no sense to give up. We should keep going no matter how hard it is.
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I agree, even after some obstacles everyone should keep going and trying to live happy life. Even after losing such important thing as memory it is possible to still remain yourself in some way.
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I think that also very painful thing to watch was his diary. It was full of “true awakenings”. Every moment was “that” moment, every previous was a fake – it wasn’t him. He has been living in such a loop since his brain injury. He look at this diary and every day fight with this cruel reality. Looking at him I don’t know if I should admire him… or feel sorry for him.
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But maybe he is so focused on “present true awakening” that he doesn’t think about the last one.
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Yes, but he can also see that his note is writed like previous notes, so he can think that he wrote them. Due to that I agree that this diary is unnecessary. Cognitive dissonance is one of the last things he needs right now.
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I think that this movie is not just about Clive’s case. It also presents different ways of dealing with suffering. Deborah was lost. She moved, wanted kids and normal life, had a problems with food and alcohol at some point. But she handled all this, found God in her life and returned to her husband. Clive’s daughter admited that she gave up. His son said that he had not seen father for years because of pain.
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I agree. It shows that Clive’s illness affected not only him but also his loved ones. They also had to deal with this difficult situation.
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Exactly. Illness effects many people around the patient. It’s hard, but they should try to find some positive sides of that situations.
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We learn that amnesia is connected with damage of the hippocampus and it can destroy not only explicit memory, but also implicit memory as we can see in the documentary when Clive was brushing his teeth. Deborah made a list for him how to brush teeth step by step.
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I think that he is a prisoner of consciousness, because he was aware of the fact that he had problems with his memory. It was really sad to watch him couldn’t recognize his own children and the fact that after two minutes he wasn’t able to tell that someone visited him made me heartbroken.
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I also loved the fact that beside this whole situation, he had great sense of humor and made me laugh a few times during watching his story
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I think there is not just well functioning memory or a complete lack of it, but it’s a spectrum. There are people that remember every single word or event, there are some that remember just past few years, last 24 hours, few minutes or even seconds. I thought amnesia is just having no memory of something that happend in a specific time, but I’ve never expected it might looks like the Clive’s case.
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I meant having 24 hours memory, waking up everyday thinking that it’s the same day.
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Memory loss doesn’t work this way, Alexandra. It’s not possible to wake up in the morning without any memories of what happened in the previous 24 hours.
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I’m pretty sure I heard about these cases but I can be wrong
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That’s true, but I found the story of Michelle Philpots which looks similar.
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I learned that we should enjoy every moment of our life, because we don’t know when something tragic may happen to us. It is nothing extraordinary at all, but I think that those ordinary things are the most important in human’s life.
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Our memory is a precious gift that we underestimate every day. It was very moving to watch t Clive’s diary, in which he immortalized moments. A man without memory is a man without the most beautiful memories of his life – Clive does not remember his wedding. Lack of memory also makes thinking difficult, deprives people of their independence and gives them a sense of emptiness.
Nevertheless, the loss of memory does not take away the temperament that allows us to preserve our character traits/personality for which our loved ones love us. -
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Honestly i heard about him in psychology’s class. We were talking about him and we were analyzing wchich part of his brain stopped working.
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Clive’s story showed me that memory is very important part of our lives. I learned that I have to appreciate the smallest things that happen in my life, because I don’t know when I can lose them.
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I learnt that herpes simplex virus is responsible for damage of the hippocampus which is crucial structure of the brain when it comes to memory. And this virus goes beyond blood-brain barrier and causes inflammation of the brain.
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I didn’t know before that the herpes siplex virus could cause such massive brain damage.
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Fotunately, I didn’t have one.
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I learnt that we have memory responisble for various parts of our life. FOr exampple Clive did not lost his ability to play piano or singing.
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But why? Why did he forget his wedding and the names of his children, but is still able to play the piano?
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Because the damages ocurred in the part of the brain responsible for short-term memory ang long-term memory but haven’t touched his procedural memory. Thats my opinion but I can be wrong
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I learned something really surprising to me. Such serious amnesia can be caused by the flu. The virus passes through the blood-brain barrier and attacks the brain, making you forget.
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But it wasn’t the flu. It was a different virus, the herpes simplex virus which usually shows on the lip.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Herpes%28PHIL_1573_lores%29.jpg
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Yes, I have formulated the wrong sentence. I meant his sympthomes initially were very similar to the flu.
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Indeed, initially everyone, including the doctors, thought that Clive came down with flu. Maybe if someone had recognised the brain inflammation earlier, Clive wouldn’t have lost memory.
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I was thinking about Deborah. She had seen her husband in bad condition and she called the doctor so late. It is unacceptable for me!
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There are many kinds of memory and there are diffrent parts of the brain which are responsible for them. Virus can damaged the functioning of specific memory, but it hasn’t necesserily affect others.
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You’ve mentioned some types of memory. Could you, please, answer these questions?
– Is there any evidence in the video that Clive’s sensory memory is still functioning?
– Is there any evidence in the video that Clive’s sensory short-term memory (STM) is still functioning?
– Does he seem to have implicit long-term memory (LTM)?
– Does he seem to have any semantic memory?
– Does he seem to have episodic memory?-
I think he has sensory memory because he remebers for couple of seconds that his sister was with him and that his wife told him what is her job. He has short-term memory because he can store information for 7 seconds but his brain can not change it to long-term memory. He also has semantic memory. He does not have episodic memory but he remembers some events from his childhood. He has implicit long term memory because he knows how to play piano.
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Clive’s sensory memory is still functioning, because he remember things in a short period of time (7-10 seconds). It means also that his sensory short-time memory is still functioning. When it comes to his long-term memory I think he seems to have it, because it is acquired and used unconsiously. He seem to have semantic memory, because he had some associations in his life, for example taking notes is connected with his associations about daily times, and that’s how this memory works. He doesn’t have episodic memory anymore, because he does not remember most of the facts about his life. However, remains of this memory may occur in his brain, because he is aware about some relationships in his life, for example his wife.
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I think his short-term memory is functioning because has has seven second memory and that is time in which this memory is functioning, moreover it is responsible for storage of new expierences and it is very unsteady.
He can have semantic memory, because he uses language and generally knows the words. Personally speaking, i do not assume that he has episodic memory, because he does not remember such events like his wedding. I do not also think that he has implicit long-term memory, because he does not know how to brush teeth, he needs detailed clues.-
You’re right about short-term memory and semantic memory, which is for facts or general knowledge (he remembers his name, his wife’s name, the fact that he was/is a musician, that he is married, etc.). He doesn’t have episodic memory (although he remembers few situations from his childhood) but he preserved implicit/procedural memory. He may not remember whether he brushed his teeth or not (and has to be reminded to brush them), but he knows how to do it, as much as knows how to get dressed, how to make coffee or how to play the piano.
Procedural memory stores information about how to do things.
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He could still play the piano and comunicate with
oderother people so his semantic memory is working fine, His STM is working in some way because he remembers things for a few minutes. Hedidn’tdoesn’tremeberremember any episodes of his lifef.ee.g. his weddingwith Debroahso he maybe can’t have episodic memory and also maybe his LTM doesn’t work because in his room in the special facility he has instructions to do every-day things-
Playing the piano is not the example of procedural memory, however knowing what the word “piano” means is the example of semantic memory.
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Indeed, my mistake, thank you for explanation
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Another thing, his procedural long-term memory is functioning well.
You have to distinguish between a few subtypes of long-term memory: episodic (for personal events), semantic (general information, facts, etc) or procedural (how to do things).He remembers his wife’s name – his semantic memory is largely intact
He doesn’t remember his wedding – his episodic memory is not functioning
He remembers how to play the piano – his procedural memory is fine-
Yes I know, I made a mistake 🙂
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In my opinion he have sensory memory because he could remember for a couple of seconds that Deborah is working as a PR worker. For me he have implicit long-term memory because it is used by him uncounscious for example he knows how to shave or play piano. Clive definitely doesn’t have any semantic episodic because he could not recall his past events like concerts at wich he conducted or his wedding day. He might have semantic memory because he knows the fact that Debroah is his wife or that he was a conductor. I don’t have a clue how it is with his short-term memory.
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-Playing the piano shows that he didn’t lose semantic memory.
-I think that Clive’s short term memory is funcioning
– He can recognize important person in his life for example his son, but he can’t remeber his name.
– I think that he has semantic memory, because he understand the meaning of words.
– Clive can recall details from his childhood, but on the other hand he don’t remember his wedding.-
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Thank you all for the discussion. I did enjoy it. The topic will be open so you are very welcome to add any further thoughts. I will catch up with everything you will write.
I wish you a Happy Easter and a nice time with your families. As some of you said today, sometimes we don’t appreciate what we have. Let’s enjoy this special time despite the tough circumstances.
Meanwhile, I’d like you to study these lessons and do all the exercises there (together with the exercises from unit 4 in the book):
I will send you soon a text/a link to a movie to read/see for the next lesson.
Have a good day!
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