“The Disembodied Lady” (Year 1 Thur.)
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I have to admit that I am struck by this story, because it shows how our bodies are complicated and mysterious. It also shows that we take our lives for granted, but the truth is that we don’t know what will come next, we can lose everything at the moment.
I’m impressed by Christina’s acts and behaviour. I can’t even imagine how difficult must be life without proprioception, but in my opinion she handled it really well. She was fighting bravely for a “normal” life. Although people were looking at her like a freak and she had worse days, she was always bold and gutsy. She is very inspiring.
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Our senses might be cooperating and maybe vision is the most important, the one which manages all of them. I think that, because when Christina lost her proprioreception she could not move her legs or arms without using her vision.
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Because, when the other sense such as proprioreception stopped working vision was responsible for partial recovery of this function. In Christina’s case it was also audition which helped with living more normal life.
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As Ludwig Wittgenstein said “things that are most important for us are hidden”. We can’t notice some of the things because they are always there. That’s exactly how the sense of proprioception works. It’s automatic and unconscious.
Christina’s case is strange because she lost something she didn’t realise she had. And when she lost proprioception she started to appreciate the life she used to live.-
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Christina had a normal life like anybody else. One day she recognised she can’t feel her own body without knowing before that it’s even possible. For me it’s strange to lose something that we didn’t know can be lost or even we had it.
Disembodied is the lack of ability to feel own body, to feel our body as proper to us. She can’t feel her body unless she look at it.
Pithed means having the spinal cord damaged.-
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I think it is possible because the reason has a foundation in human physiology. “Purely sensory neuritis, affecting the sensory roots of spinal and cranial nerves throughout the neuraxis” was the cause of Christina’s state.
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The statement is true for both physiology and psychology – we take for granted every small thing until we are not able to use it anymore. It can refere to small things such as watching tv every day, to (as in Christinas case) one of our senses
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Dominika, do you remember why and when Christina lost her proprioception? What life did she lead after the loss?
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it all started with a dream – she had an odd dream (she said she had never had one like it before) that she couldn’t feel her body. the next day the dream came to life. for a very long time she didnt have any control over her body unless she was looking at specific parts that she wanted to move. after some months she stared to gain control in actions such as walking, sitting in the bus but it wasn’t a normal life – she couldn’t do thins such as talking while eating
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Yes, you right. She did have this disturbing dream, but there was a medical reason why she lost proprioception. If you don’t remember, please refer to the essay.
Then, I would like you to respond to my post in bold (below) and write about your impressions about the essay, Chritina’s case, her struggle with life and anything you’d like to share with us.-
she was admitted to a hospital because of an abdominal pain. she was supposed to have a surgery. the dream happened the night before the operation – the doctor said it must have been a pre-operative anxiety
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Yes, she was scheduled for gallbladder removal surgery, but it wasn’t the reason why she lost proprioception.
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it was an acute polyneuritis
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I think Wittgenstein’s quote is a good summary for Christinas case. The fact we don’t pay attention to proprioception doesn’t mean it is not there.As we can learn from the text it’s impossible to live a normal life without it.
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According to the text it is our hidden sense, thanks to proprioception we can feel our bodies as our own. I would simply define it as sense of orientacion, something we use to integrate information from our other senses.
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Yes, you’re right. Proprioception is the sense of feeling your body in space. Thanks to it, you know where your hands or legs are located. What made Christina lose this sense?
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Her problems started the day before her removal of the gallbladder, with her disturbing dream of being unsteady on her feet, which came true later on. Then it turned out she had sensory neuritis, and it caused her to lose proprioception. It’s also worth mentioning that Christina was not taken seriously by psychiatrist who simply diagnosed her with anxiety hysteria.
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Yes, you right. Can you also explain what is polyneuritis and anxiety hysteria, please?
When you do so, can you respond to my question in bold?-
Polyneuritis is inflammation of several nerves at the same time, it can cause for example loss of reflexes.
Anxiety hysteria is one of many anxiety disorders, it’s like anxiety but with physical symptoms such as heart palpitations and breathlessness
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Christina lost something that she even wasn’t aware she had it. She lost feeling of her body. We don’t think about such familiar things. Propioception is one of thing about which is Ludwig Wittgenstein’s quote – something basic and most important. It’s unthinkable that she never feel her own body again! Maybe that’s why doctors had suspected mental illness at first. It was more probable and available.
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Before you read “The Disembodied Lady”, were you aware of your own proprioception? Can you share with us your reflection on the essay?
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I had read this text before some time ago so now I think about it sometimes. When I have read it first time I was really suprised that illness like that even exist. It’s terrifying that one day you are healthy and you live a normal life and the next one your nightmare comes true.
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I wouldn’t call it an illness just as I wouldn’t call the loss of the sense of vision or hearing an illness. What did you find the most interesting in the essay?
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I think the most interesting is Christina’s attitude. She didn’t give up and she learnt how to live without proprioception.
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I agree with you all. Ludwig Wittgenstein’s quote refers to important things that are hidden, that aren’t in front of our eyes and I think proprioception is one of them. Christina’s case shows that proprioception – our hidden ‘sixth sense’ is one of the most important foundations of ourselves. She lost this sense and it had a huge impact on her life.
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Are there other “hidden” things that we take for granted and we only appreciate them when we lose or going to lose them? Tell us something about Christina. What made her lose her proprioception?
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Other hidden things that we take for granted are all of our senses (the foundations of our ability to get to know the world around us), they may be also our relationships, our general abilities and probably many more.
I don’t think that we can be sure what made Christina lose her proprioception. It happened after she had sort of a ‘premonitory dream’. And it could have been triggered by her pre-operative anxiety.-
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The cause of her loss was sensory neuritis. When I said that we can’t be sure, I was thinking of a more general reason or cause, not really about the diagnosis.
But I get it now that the sole cause of it was this sensory polyneuropathy – sensory neuritis, which affected ‘the sensory roots of spinal and cranial nerves’.-
Exactly, by the way, dreaming about losing proprioception the night before she lost it was very strange, wasn’t it?
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her case shows, how connected everything in our body is – all of our senses cooperate in order to make us able to do even the simpliest things, such as walking. when she lost her proprioception she was unable to walk or carry things unless she was looking at them
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I agree with you, because we aren’t thinking about our connected body on a daily basis and Christine’s story can make us think about it more. I think It can also show that we don’t think we have something important untill we lose it.
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Christina had to focus on on the simpliest things like keeping fork in her hand. It shows that actions that are very easy to do can be a huge challange and require a lot of concentration from us.
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I think that it shows that people are managed by their brain without even realizing how that work, which is very fascinating.
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Luwig Wittgenstein said that “The aspects of things that are most important for us are hidden because of their simplicity and familiarity” and i think that this is true in most cases – including Christina’s. She didn’t realise how important perception was to her until she lost it, then she saw how huge impact on her life it had.
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I was not aware of my proprioreception so when i read the text i was shocked, because Christina lived a normal life so that issue can happen to everyone and it severely influences our lives.
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We consider our bodies as our property. Because of proprioception, ‘our sixth sense’, we feel them, we control them and it’s familiar to us. Christina lost the ability to control her body, something she didn’t know she had. She wasn’t aware of the importance of propioception, which was always before her eyes.
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Christina was the first ‘disembodied’ person. Now there are some hundreds of cases. There are different causes of similar symptoms.
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Ludwig Wittgenstein’s says “The aspects of things that are most important for us are hidden because of their simplicity and familiarity. It fits to Christina`s case because after she lost the sense of proprioception she starts to appreciate simple things in her life like gentle feeling the wind on her body. This case also teach us not to take life for granted.
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Susana, what was Christina’s life like before and after the loss? Can you imagine losing proprioception? Would you be able to live a relatively normal life then?
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Christina had a normal life, typicall for 27 years old woman. She was a loving mother, successful worker, having many passions. She loved her life. After the loss her life turned upside down. She couldn`t see her body itself. She has to learn how to move by using her eyes. There was no improvement at the begining but after some time she could automaticly move her body, addapt to social life, travelling by bus etc.
I can
t imagine losing perception.I coudnt live without it. Not feel, experience normal daily activites.
I think that just like Christina i would get used to that type of life. I woud try to appreciate every moment of my life, an try to stay positive.
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Words written by a philosopher, Ludwig Wittgenstein, in Christina’s case took on a new, more physiological meaning. She began to actually feel (without feeling) his words in a less methaphoric way. Wittgenstein claimed, that one can’t appreciate a value of many things, when still having them in front of their eyes. Meanwhile, for Christina, seeing things was the only way to control her body.
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Ludwig Wittgenstein’s quote, for me, means that we don’t think about something, we already have, untill we lose it. For example, nobody thinks about being able to see until they lose their sight. Of course we know we see, but we don’t think about it all the time. “The Disembodied Lady” was about something like that, but this woman “loses” all of her body; she stopped feeling that her body belongs to her. When I looked at Christina’s story I started to contemplate what would I do in her situation, without the feeling that my own body is mine and only thing i can do is try to live with it because i can’t change it. Her case was interesting to me because she was the only one that has this condition.
What do all of you think about it? -
After Christina lost her proproception, she wasn’t able to do daily activities just like before, she had to be very focoused and very carefull in everything she did. Referring to Wittgenstein’s quote Christina has never thought so scrupulous about such easy activities like for example using fork and spoon cause everybody know this things very well
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It was really interesting. Her story makes me think what I would do in her situation and the case was so strange and exceptional that i wanted to read more and more. I can say that this text made me realize that we don’t think about something, we already have, untill we lose it. I also feeled pain of not treating her like people who need some understanding or help because she don’t look like other people or aren’t showing special appearance like people who have some kind of disability, like blind people. I myself have disability and it is not much visible because it concerns muscles (they are really weak, especially in legs). People don’t think about something that is inside of other humans. Is it a disability or something else and they don’t think about what is inside of them most of the time. They thing they will be healthy all of their lives but nobody knows what is going to happen and i think they are just afraid of thinking that something can be hidden and still exists. Christina’s approach made me believe that we should be positive in our lives when we can.
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The essay was very eye-opening and it made me reflect on many things that I take for granted in life. The story was well written and it showed the whole process of Christina’s story. It was very informative and helpful for me.
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I was not aware of something like proprioception, so when I read that essay I was quite amazed how complicated is human body. I mean, there are so many connections, processes and every single piece of our body is so important. Enough that one of them is missing or broken and the rest is not working properly. During reading “Disambodied Lady” I started to wonder if there is more things like proprioception, which we do not know about but it is essential. There is something more in Christina’s case that I find interesting. It is the fact that she had a dream about her state without proprioception. This leads me to the opinion that dreams are not just random activation of the brain.
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To sum up my general view on the essay I found it to be an inconceivable example and at the same time a proof of human strength and pereseverance in struggling with difficulties. I admire Christina for her effort to learn how to function all over again, despite possible yearning the old thriving life and a must to designate her new identity. It’s unbelievable how she just managed to trust herself and believe in gradually building her reality again. I was an uplifting reading to me, resetting my faith that there is always an attainable resolution provided that we want to accomplish it. It seems it’s always better to consider one’s strengths than weaknesses 😉 and simultanously it all brings me to a reflection how much and what do I really want to realize…
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For me is very touching because “loosing your own body” is something unimaginable and her case is also motivating cause she had some worse moments but never give up. It is also touching because of the society and the way she was treated by other people. It shows also that disability that is noticeable f.e. Being blind or using orthopaedic bullets, is more understandeable for society than f.e. neurological issues
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It must be some kind of nightmare, waking up one morning without perception of your own body. What scares me more, if proprioception is like the eyes of the body, and it fails – we can compensate it by using vision, but what would happen if we were actually visually impaired? Reading text like this should reminds us about the value of health. On the other hand, being permanently aware of every single process taking place in one’s body would be extremely overwhelming. In that case, being „unable to notice something because it is always before one’s eyes” may be nothing else but brains way to prevent an overloading.
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Referring to Ludwig Wittgenstein’s words people don’t pay attention to things they have, but only when they lose something, they start to appreciate it. Christina was in the same position. She had lost proprioception and then realized how important it was in her everyday life. Even though Christina had started “new life”, she accustomed to it and tried to lead a normal life.
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When I read the text I was thinking that loosing senses might be one of the worst thing that can happen to people, because they cannot live normal life without it as if Christina did not.
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After reading the essay I started to imagine life without the sense of proprioception. But it turned out unimaginable for me. I’m not sure I would be that motivated to find the strength to live as normal as it’s possible in spite of many difficulties.
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In my opinion the essay if really valuable. It reminds to reader that we cannot think about our health as about something given forever. It’s also great source of medical knowledge.
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To me the Wittgenstein’s quote sounds quite bitterly if referred to Christina’s case. It’s like some of us need to lose something not realized to even exist so that we, as mankind, would get to know the thing at all.
But I don’t think our ‘blindness’ makes us any poorer or worse. We can learn what is important only through gaining experience… it’s a pity this process sometimes demands a loss of normal life. I believe the trouble with our human blindness begins when we start to forget what is crucial… -
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We shouldn’t take our health for granted. Because of our busy life, we often don’t take care of it. Christina’s case reminds us that we should appreciate, what we have. Additionally the text draws attention to the situaction of the people with disability. They deserve more understanding, less harmful comments.
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I think this essay was something I should read. It made me think about what I have now. I become more greateful for my health and abilities I have. Also, I think I should start taking care of myself more, becouse no one knows if i will be healthy forever.
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It must be some kind of nightmare, waking up one morning without perception of your own body. What scares me more, if proprioception is like the eyes of the body, and it fails – we can compensate it by using vision, but what would happen if we were actually visually impaired? Reading text like this should reminds us about the value of health
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For me is very touching because “loosing your own body” is something unimaginable and her case is also motivating cause she had some worse moments but never give up. It is also touching because of the society and the way she was treated by other people. It shows also that disability that is noticeable f.e. Being blind or using orthopaedic bullets, is more understandeable for society than f.e. neurological issues
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I’ve actually read it about 5 years ago, but in polish. It was very nice to refresh that memory – now, that I’ve learned more about psychology and neurology I understood more. It was very interesting, nicely written, but it made me think about things I normally dont aprreciate, like my abbility to walk or carry a cup of tea. It really opened my eyes
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I`m glad i had a chance to read this essay. It reminds us that not everything is given to us forever, that we have to enjoy every moment of life, to be gratefull. I also learnt that despite adversity we can not give up.
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I agree with you 100%. I think we should be more aware of passing time and be gratefull about what we have.
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I think this essay is really touching. Christina’s story is really interesting and it make us think about it. It shows that people are often in bad situation but they are able to deal with it. It is really motivating.
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Christina was just living her life. But when she lost her proprioception she stated seeing value in activities, that had seemed small before this accident. I think it’s excellent example for discussing the Wittgenstein’s quote. We don’t pay atteintion to „simple” possibilities that we have from our bodies. We just think it’s obivious, that we are able to walk, talk and do daily activites. Christina had lost these abilities and then started noticing how important it was. For example, she was thrilled when she could feel wind and light touch on her skin during the car ride. I think that we should appreciate little things like this.
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The quote provided by Wittgenstein explores the importance of little things that human beings may forget they even have. In Christina’s case, the loss of self-movement and body position was unexpected and shocking. At first, the doctors said that Christina has ‘anxiety hysteria’. But slowly her symptoms got worse and led to complete proprioception, where she had no muscle sense throughout her body. The great thing was that Christina was eager to learn more about her condition and how to adjust her daily life to the changes that she had gone through. Day by day, Christina found ways how to monitor her body by vision and make her movements and reflexed more subtle and automatic. Surely, this whole process was hard on her and required from her a lot of strength, both physically and emotionally.
The fact that Christina lost her proprioception very suddenly, shows us how fragile one’s life is and how our bodies can transform. It is important to cherish the small things in life that so are familiar to us, that we sometimes forget to notice on a daily basis. Because as shown in the text, those little things can become underappreciated and once they’re gone it may be too late to retrieve them. -
I enjoyed reading the essay. Especially now that I am a psychology student, it made me think about Christina’s experience and how hard it must be to lose such an important sense. I’ve learnt about proprioception and the bad side of taking things for granted. Now I feel more thankful and appreciative of my ‘hidden senses’ – the ones that I can’t physically see, the ones that ‘see’ the world for me. I also found interesting Christina’s way of dealing with her problem and the strange dream that almost predicted the future events.
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I think that this essay is something that everybody should read. That proves that nothing is given to us forever. I was really surprised that ilness like this even exists, and it made me think about this more. Christina’s reaction was understood, because she doesn’t even know, she have something like proprioception before.
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Referring to Wittgenstein’s quote I can tell that Chrtisina’s case is a very good lesson for all of us. We don’t appreciate things in our life which we deem as something certain, obvious. It’s because we have never lost them. Christina lost something such significant like her sense of proprioception, her body become “blind”. She was paralysed, but at the same time she wasn’t. She felt empty, she felt inhuman, like an animal used during lab experiments. It was tragedy for her that she couldn’t fell the world the same way as always. To this day she is going through this nightmare only because she has lost something certain, something obvious which we don’t notice every day. In my opinion this is the most important thing I learnt from this text – we should appreciate every small thing in our life, because we never know when we lose it… and how painful this loss will be.
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I think that we don’t pay attention to things which are obvious. We don’t know how it is when it’s gone. We can’t feel obvious things because we don’t have comparsion.
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I think that we should enjoy our daily. We are very lucky to be healthy and to do most of the activities automatically, without big effort. We have controll over our own body and this is something common for us, but for oder people it can be the biggest dream.
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I felt very sad after reading this text. I really love my body and I just can’t imagine how it is to be disembodied. Wittgenstein said commonly known truth that is forgotten by us in a daily life. I didn’t really knew that without proprioreceptions we are pithed like frogs as it is said in the text. It is because I’m using it unconsciously. Christina’s case is very horrible for me because it shows how important are small and hidden parts of our body. While using my legs I don’t really think how and why they work. Now after reading that Christina could’t at first walk unless paying great attention to it I’m starting to appreciate how my body works and also that I should care for all its parts – the hidden and visable ones. Christina just had bad luck because she didn’t do something that could cause her state – not like the people who took too many vitamins B6. Also just like me she did not get a clue that sometehing uncounsciously used can brake down and change her life forever. Althought she partially acceptted her situation she ,and I quote ” still and forever remains defective and defeated”. It shows that we all should start appreciate what we have even things that are hidden and familiar for us as it is said by the Wittgenstein text.
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I found Christina’s case very interesting. I have never heard about such situation before, because it’s not common. I felt upset for her, because it’s terrible how people’s life can change. I don’t know what would I do if something like that had ever happened to me or someone I know. I think that Ludwig Wittgenstein’s quote: “The aspects of things that are most important for us are hidden because of their simplicity and familiarity” fits perfectly for Christina’s case, because no one would think that such simple things like walking or sitting could be lost. I think that everyone should appreciate their skills, which we use in our daily life.
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Human body is full of surprises. I found one of them, when i readed this essay, because i didn’t know what perception is before. I think that story about Christina is really interesting. She lost something, that she did’t even know that exist, and that changed her life so much.
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I think that yesterday I wrote my comment in the wrong place, so I will rewrite it here.
I have to admit that I am struck by this story, because it shows how our bodies are complicated and mysterious. It also shows that we take our lives for granted, but the truth is that we don’t know what will come next, we can lose everything at the moment.
I’m impressed by Christina’s acts and behaviour. I can’t even imagine how difficult must be life without proprioception, but in my opinion she handled it really well. She was fighting bravely for a “normal” life. Although people were looking at her like a freak and she had worse days, she was always bold and gutsy. She is very inspiring. -
The most important things can be unavailable
forto us to see, because we used to ignore things, which are around us everyday. That’s why sometimes we don’t pay attention to our senses. We are just usingitthem all the time, sometimes automatically. Christina’s case shows that all hidden things can be lost some day and it isn’t given forever. I think she didn’t appreciate it until she lost her proprioreception. She had to consciously think about every move,whatwhich can be exhausting. -
Nowadays we do not pay attention to the most important things. We consider them to be given
forto us forever. But when we lose these things, we see how crucial they are. Christina’s case shows us how our body (and our life as well) is fragile and cautions us against taking really major things for granted.
Ludwig Wittgenstein said “the aspects of things that are most important for us are hidden” but I think that when we stop for a minute, leaveearthboundmundane things behind us, finally we will be able to see them. -
When I thought more about Cristina’s case I actually started to wonder why her dream was so similar to what happened to her after it (losing proprioception). I think it is really strange but interesting at the same time. Maybe it was a coincidance? What do you think about this?
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I think that it was not a coincidance. Maybe our dreams are somehow connected with our current emotions? But in Christina’s case I noticed convergence with “Threat simulation theory” by Antti Revansuo which we were talking about. To be honest, dreaming is really entertaining subject for me. I would like to know clearly why we are dreaming and what they mean.
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I think you are right that our dreams are connected with our emotions. I too think dreams are really interesting Topic because of the mystery behind what they are for. Thanks for really interesting reply 🙂
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From my point of view organism is a very mysterious and tricky thing for ordinary people. It’s a complex, multifunctional machine. Thinking about everything that is assosiate with our body, all the time, would be overwhelming. In my opinion that’s why we don’t pay attention to little things unless they will manifest their existence.
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In the context of what Ludwig Wittgenstein said, I think the most important thing is that we don’t notice everything we have until we lose it. Same goes with proprioception, which is absolutely natural for us and unconscious. Becouse of this I can say it was actually ”hidden” becouse it’s not what we usually pay attention to.
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